| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
good4buck |
Stone drops the swing offense |
Lead | ||
|
and is going to a 4 out and 1 in. Heard about it on the radio. Can someone explain how that offense works? thanks
Last Edited By: good4buck 10/14/09 6:21 PM.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
BuckSixty |
#1 | |||
good4buck wrote: Can someone explain how that offense works? thanksNo idea, but this story appeared today on madison.com: University of Wisconsin women's basketball team to try new offensive approach |
||||
|
|
||||
Bud Foster |
#2 | |||
|
good4buck: I'm guessing you have a grasp of the swing as that has been discussed ad naseam around these parts so I won't go there. The 4-out/1-in
motion is a "true" motion offense. By "true" I mean that there is not a continuity to the offense. Players don't go from point A to
point B to point C and so on. With the four around one there are generally four perimeter type players around the one post on the inside. The perimeter
players will cut, set screens for each other, cut off screens by the post player in no particular pattern, but will react to each screen/cut depending on how
the defense plays them. For example if one of the perimeters is cutting off a screen by the post from the bottom up and their defender trails them they will,
more than likely, curl cut (come off the screen and "curl" back toward the basket). If the defender goes ball side of the screen they will, more
than likely, fade to the corner/wing. The perimeters will also set screens for each other and read the defense or they can simply make a basket cut again
depending on how they are being defended. The post player will often set screens for a cutting perimeter player and shape up or cut with in the lane to post
up. Ask any coach how they run their four around one and you'll probably get as many answers as there are coaches, but in general it's the offensive
players reading the defense coming off screens. It is a passing and cutting game, not a dribble penetration game normally. I have also seen four-out/1-ins
with two post players on the floor with one of the perimeter spots designated for the second post so high/low action can be run. I hope that makes some sense.
It's probably easier to get if you can see it diagrammed or on the court as opposed to text.
|
||||
|
|
||||
badnjanes |
#3 | |||
|
What are the chances we see this team pressing all over the floor ?
That would be one use of so many smaller players. |
||||
|
|
||||
RadDad2005 |
#4 | |||
badnjanes wrote: if they are quick and well coached maybe. They have all but two of those things. |
||||
|
|
||||
beaver76 |
#5 | |||
|
Is there enough money in her budget for a Rick Torbett Better Basketball Video?
|
||||
|
|
||||
Skyhook6 |
#6 | |||
RadDad2005 wrote: This motion offense uses four perimeter players and one post player, and is a good offense to use when your
team has good outside players and only a few post players such as we currently have.
More substitutions will be necessary to keep the players fresh on the court, especially if we constantly press on defense. With the layers of G's that Stone has that should be no problem bringing in fresh G's. Given the team's size they will still have major problems inside. With poor O-rebounding they will need to take lower-risk shots. It will be interesting to see this in action, but I will not make any judgments on it's effectiveness until they play in conference against the major D1's. Too many cupcakes in pre-conference and they should win most of their pre-conference games no matter what offense they run. This will be Stone's version of the 4-G offense that we expected she would go to considering the lack of post recruiting. "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". VINCE LOMBARDI |
||||
|
|
||||
good4buck |
#7 | |||
|
I think I understand how it works thanks to Bud and Skyhook. My next question: Is this type of offense hard to defend? Would an opponent get overly tired
chasing the cutters and fighting through the screens? Or would the defense know where the cutters are coming from and slide by the screens?
|
||||
|
|
||||
Skyhook6 |
#8 | |||
good4buck wrote:Purdue men plays a 4-out 1-in motion offense and were more successful against zone defenses than MTM. The cutters can adapt to any zone defense. "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". VINCE LOMBARDI |
||||
|
|
||||
Bud Foster |
#9 | |||
good4buck wrote:Here is my stock answer as to what offense is the hardest to guard and I say this completely seriously. It's the one with the best players. So my answer is it depends. It depends on how hard the players cut, how well they screen, how adept they are at feeding the post, shooting, scoring in the post. I'm not trying to be a smartass when I write this, but it depends on how good they are. |
||||
|
|
||||
Skyhook6 |
#10 | |||
Bud Foster wrote: Great answer! "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". VINCE LOMBARDI |
||||
|
|
||||
litesrn |
#11 | |||
|
Since bud's conducting class here ( we all know he's qualified),how does what Stone is heading toward compare to Dick's blocker/mover O? Serious
question - you're never too old to learn more.
People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.
|
||||
|
|
||||
beaver76 |
#12 | |||
|
I really really like that type of offense but setting screens and driving your defender into the blocker seems to be a lost art. Too many times I've
watched a post player come up to set a screen and the ball handler dribbles 2 feet to either side and the defender slips right by the screen. It drives me
crazy.
IMO this offense would be a much better fit for this team given they don't have a lot of outside scorers but do have short stocky post players who would make good blockers. It would be nice to see a pick and roll once in awhile as well. |
||||
|
|
||||
Bud Foster |
#13 | |||
litesrn wrote:lites - Bennett's Blocker/Mover is also a "true" motion offense. So in that sense what Stone is implementing is very similar to Dick's O in that there is no continuity. From what I have seen with Bennett's B/M he runs it out of three sets - 5-out, 4 around 1 and 3 around 2. The difference is where he puts his designated screeners (blockers). In the B/M two players are designated as blockers and their job is to set screens for the other three cutters (movers). Depending on where the blockers are stationed they can screen and post up, screen and slip, screen and step to the ball or screen and pop. The movers can also screen for each other, but they will not screen for the blockers. The placmenet of the blockers varies, but the most commonly used are lane/lane (both blockers on a lane line), lane/wide (one blocker on a lane line and the other getting the other side of the floor screening anywhere from the arc to the lane, wide/wide (both blockers getting a side of the floor) and high/low (one blocker working the blocks and the other working the high post). Lane/lane would be a 3-out/2-in style offense, while lane/wide and high/low would be four-out/one-in offenses with wide/wide being 5-out. |
||||
|
|
||||
litesrn |
#14 | |||
|
Thanks, bud. Sorta the way I thought it worked.
People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.
|
||||
|
|
||||
UncleEd2007 |
#15 | |||
|
Is Stone truly trying to adjust the offense to the players she has or is it a comment of trying to find something to pin blame on (i.e., type of offensive
system wasn't effective last year, a change will make us better)?. Agree with Bud, talent is more correlated with performance than the type of offense.
"We were small in numbers,but big in heart. I think, hopefully, that came through." - Coach Bert Bielema, after the FSU game, Sept. 12, 2009.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Skyhook6 |
#16 | |||
good4buck wrote:Maybe someone should tell Lisa it's 4 out and 1 in.....not 4 in and 1 out. Duhhh. Meanwhile the media experts pick Badgers to finish 7th in B-10 this year while B-10 coaches pick us to finish 10th. Here is Stone's response to a question re: her new offense at Big-10 media day; Q. You talked about your new offense. I guess what led to the changes? And does your offense have a name? Lisa Stone: It's four in, one out. That's what it is. It's a four in one out motion offense. What brought about the changes? Our personnel. This offense fits our personnel better. Really it's going to look a lot like the swing. The swing is four around one, as well, but we're trying to stretch it out a little bit more, a little more screen reads, a little more freedom to play, and hopefully get to the foul line more, more post touches, screens that lead to scores. But it's a four-around-one motion offense. That's the title. "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". VINCE LOMBARDI
Last Edited By: Skyhook6 10/29/09 3:20 PM.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Strange Brew eh |
#17 | |||
|
I vote for the offense run at that D3 school in Iowa. It would be interesting to see in a womens game.
|
||||
|
|
||||
SaundersBucky |
#18 | |||
Strange Brew eh wrote:Grinnell? You need excessive speed, a lot of team depth, and decent shooting to even hope to make that work. Some women's teams could pull that off, but I don't think Wisconsin is one of them. Just because we are small does not mean we are fast. I think Wisconsin would lose to teams like Ohio State and Michigan State by scores like 120-44 if we used that system against them.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Strange Brew eh |
#19 | |||
|
Whatsthe difference between 120-44 and 88-44?
|
||||
|
|
||||