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TAMU to SEC???

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NumenLumen		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10448 August 11, 2011 8:56 AM Shout, shout - let it all out. These are the things I can do without.	Remove this ad In re Mizzou, my behind-the-scenes reading of the events that led to Nebraska coming to the B1G was that if the B1G had wanted Mizzou it would have had Mizzou. But it chose not, for some reason. The last time around, Mizzou was basically the drunk, sort of attractive girl at the party that threw herself at the B1G. The B1G played it cool, and got to go home with her much more sober and much hotter sorority sister. Maybe Mizzou makes sense this time around. From what I know it is a fit in the B1G as a university and is decent-to-good athletically. That would open the discussion of who would pair with Mizzou in expansion to keep an even number.
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Tennesseebadger	Why Frank the Tank may be wrong	#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2561 August 11, 2011 9:11 AM	I like Frank The Tank and he makes a lot of solid arguments that all apply to the past. But something new is going on here: The Long Horn Network. I think it changes the intensity of the whole situation. Basically, everyone else in the state is going to have to explain to A&M why UT should be allowed to be the bully on the block, but A&M can't protect their own interests. It's a hard argumet to make and the represenatives of A&M are likely to have something extra in their tanks. Let me reiterate again from a previous post. The Texas Legislature is out of session... until 2013. In order for the legislature to be called into session, the governor-- an A&M grad-- would have to call it into a special session. Some people have expressed surprise that A&M would be in the SEC schedule as quickly as 2012, but it makes all the sense in the world when you frame it in Texas politics. What is the legislature to do when they come back if A&M has already played a season in the SEC ? A&M is not going to ask the legislature for permission. they are going to protect their own best interests.
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Strange Brew eh		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5946 August 11, 2011 9:12 AM	Adding Mizzou gives you both the St. Louis and Kansas City markets. Adding Kansas which would be attractive includes the baggage that is K-State and only adds Kansas City. If I was the Big Ten trying to get to 14 or 16 teams and adding both TV markets and good academic schools I would add: To go 14: Boston College (Northeast Expansion!) Mizzou (Kansas City and St. Louis) 16: This would be my southern push. Duke North Carolina UVA NC State If any of this happens I see the end of the BigTen. At some point the Michigans, Ohio State and Penn States of the world won't want to share with Indiana, Minnesota and Northwestern. A National Superconferece would be huge to those schools. In that situation we would just barely be on the outside looking in.
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DCBadger7		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10473 August 11, 2011 9:22 AM Blissfully Disinterested	Tennesseebadger wrote: I like Frank The Tank and he makes a lot of solid arguments that all apply to the past. But something new is going on here: The Long Horn Network. I think it changes the intensity of the whole situation. Basically, everyone else in the state is going to have to explain to A&M why UT should be allowed to be the bully on the block, but A&M can't protect their own interests. It's a hard argumet to make and the represenatives of A&M are likely to have something extra in their tanks. Let me reiterate again from a previous post. The Texas Legislature is out of session... until 2013. In order for the legislature to be called into session, the governor-- an A&M grad-- would have to call it into a special session. Some people have expressed surprise that A&M would be in the SEC schedule as quickly as 2012, but it makes all the sense in the world when you frame it in Texas politics. What is the legislature to do when they come back if A&M has already played a season in the SEC ? A&M is not going to ask the legislature for permission. they are going to protect their own best interests. TN, I think you make good points here and could end up being right. However, the following analysis by Frank is, I think, very relevant to the point you raise. If this analysis is accurate, then you have a situation where it's not just the political muscle of Tech and Baylor lining up against A&M leaving for the SEC, you also have the UT muscle, as well. No matter how badly A&M wants out, if they have to overcome the combined might of UT/Tech/Baylor I think you'll have a tough time convincing anyone they can prevail in that dynamic. Especially at a time when Perry needs as many deep-pocketed friends among all 3 alumni bases as he can get. *5. UT needs* A&M in the same conference together** – Many UT alums likely won’t admit it, but as I’ve stated before, Texas A&M is an extremely valuable school. That’s why UT simply isn’t going to let them walk away, and if it means making some financial concessions or telling ESPN to not show high school games on the LHN to keep the peace (along with applying their own political pressure plus the support of Tech and Baylor), then they’ll do it. There were a number of factors that went into play in the Pac-16 deal collapsing last year, but the threat of A&M heading to the SEC at that time was extremely high on the list. It’s instructive that the Pac-16 deal could’ve easily moved forward if UT was fine with only moving with Tech (and maybe having Utah or Kansas replace A&M in the Pac proposal) while A&M went to the SEC, yet it didn’t happen. I’ll always remember one of the first comments from a connected UT alum on this blog when the Big Ten first announced that it was exploring expansion almost 2 years ago and how he described that UT, in no uncertain terms, would not let A&M head off to the SEC as the Longhorns knew that opening up the state of Texas to that conference for TV and recruiting purposes would be a killer for their own program. At the same time, count me in as someone that will always believe that the prospect of UT going independent is an empty threat. Money is important, but many commentators are ignoring how important institutional culture is in making decisions, too. Ultimately, UT needs an entourage like a Hollywood starlet. The school’s actions time and time again have shown that having power over others is how it gets it rocks off. It wants to have schools like Texas Tech and Baylor dependent upon it and it certainly doesn’t want A&M be in a separate higher profile league. UT doesn’t just want to make the most money – it wants to control college football in the state of Texas completely, and that requires A&M to be in the fold. Notre Dame is a J.D. Salinger-type recluse that doesn’t want any attachments to anyone, which is why they have chosen to be independent as an institution (even though they’d actually make substantially more television money in the Big Ten). UT simply isn’t like that – it has always positioned itself as the proverbial sun for a bunch of other schools. UT and A&M have come very close to separating two times before over the last two decades, yet the leaders of both schools have never been able to pull the trigger (even if some their respective fans would love to use a machine gun on the relationship). A combination of politics, institutional culture and uniquely shared endowment money that makes football TV revenue look like pocket change (see the Permanent University Fund) has always kept them together. Frank's summation of the situation is, to me, very persuasive and compelling: Could Texas A&M end up in the SEC? I guess anything is possible, but let’s be clear that just because Aggies are angry doesn’t mean that they’ll move to the SEC. Any rational analysis needs to address (1) why the SEC would expand when it has no leverage to renegotiate its current TV contracts (meaning that the current SEC schools would be subsidizing any expansion until 2024), (2) why ESPN would help out the SEC on that front when it has direct interests in keeping the Big 12 alive, (3) how a court challenge to any restrictions on showing high school games on the Longhorn Network would turn out, (4) why Texas politicians would suddenly be wallflowers on conference realignment when history clearly indicates that they are not only not wallflowers, but completely interventionist and (5) why UT would just roll over and let A&M walk away. I would love to entertain arguments that address all of those massive roadblocks. “Aggies are steaming mad”, however, isn’t a valid argument.
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Badger inohiovalley		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5615 August 11, 2011 9:56 AM	ESPN doesn't want the Big 12 to fold. That's pretty compelling too. They hold the purse strings to the SEC. Their contract isn't up until 2024. That's a long time. Also....why is the Texas legislature our until 2013? Who takes that much time off? ----------------------------- "It is official - this is a rebuilding year." - St. Bucky a.k.a., The Seer, re: The Wisconsin Badgers Basketball Team, 12/8/07
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Tennesseebadger	More Frank the Tank debate	#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2561 August 11, 2011 10:00 AM	Hey DC, I have to admit that Frank's summation was pretty compelling when I read it last night. In the end, he could be right. But all the media tea leaves in SEC country say that something is going on. The flag ship radio station for South Carolina football--one with ties to the SEC office-- has reported it is a done deal. Paul Finebaum, a huge radio prescence in the south, dismantled the lead guy from Texas A&M 24/7 one afternoon for fostering this fraud of A&M to the SEC....... and then apologized the next day, saying his sources told him something was going on. The SEC office has issued no denial of on going talks between them and A&M. Now none of this means that a deal will get done, but someone is trying to brew something. One last thing. Frank argues the SEC has no leverage to renegoitae their contract. In fact, getting Texas A&M gives them leverage. Frank assumes ESPN holds the balance of power between them and the SEC. I bet Mike Slive believes he can pick up the phone and someone very high up in Bristol CT is going to pick it up and talk about what ever he wants to talk about.
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.		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1861 August 11, 2011 10:07 AM	Badger inohiovalley wrote: ESPN doesn't want the Big 12 to fold. That's pretty compelling too. They hold the purse strings to the SEC. Their contract isn't up until 2024. That's a long time. Also....why is the Texas legislature our until 2013? Who takes that much time off? They only meet once every other year for 5 months or so. The whole limited Gov't thang. I really don't think Aggy will do this. I think they are trying to become relevant by blowing smoke like but for a team that has won only one Big 12 title (13 years ago), do you think they want to face Alabam, LSU, Florida, etc on a regular basis? There is also ZERO chance UT wants to go "independent"........and this comes directly from both the AD and Prez. There are so many problems with going "independent" in this scenario that it boggles the mind. They want a conference. "My biggest indictment of Bielema is that I don't see players developing or getting better. I wonder if he has a good staff of assistants or not" - BadgerInOhioValley, December 28, 2008. "Massively out coached. Massively." - BB Fran, December 3, 2011. Edited 2 times by August 11, 2011 10:12 AM.
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DCBadger7		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10473 August 11, 2011 10:16 AM Blissfully Disinterested	Tennesseebadger wrote: One last thing. Frank argues the SEC has no leverage to renegoitae their contract. In fact, getting Texas A&M gives them leverage. Frank assumes ESPN holds the balance of power between them and the SEC. I bet Mike Slive believes he can pick up the phone and someone very high up in Bristol CT is going to pick it up and talk about what ever he wants to talk about. Sometimes smoke is just smoke. But other times, where there's smoke, there's fire. That said, to the quoted text above, I agree that it's probably wrong to say the SEC has absolutely no leverage. However, unless the contract clearly has reopener provisions, it's hard to see how ESPN would have much incentive to willingly renegotiate with the SEC when it would almost certainly screw them in their deal with the Big 12. At the end of this, there still is a contract that runs through 2024 that has to be dealt with. The biggest unknown here is Texas - do they want A&M to remain in the Big 12 so it stays viable? If so, are they willing to flex their considerable muscles in all of this to preserve the conference and block A&M's exit?? Remember, Texas has a lot of pull with ESPN, too. The one thing I am very confident of is that if Texas truly doesn't want A&M to leave, then it will more than likely get its way. History supports that conclusion.
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Badger inohiovalley		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5615 August 11, 2011 10:18 AM	Saint Bucky wrote: Badger inohiovalley wrote: Also....why is the Texas legislature our until 2013? Who takes that much time off? They only meet once every other year for 5 months or so. The whole limited Gov't thang. We need that in Washington! (Sorry for the political statement). ----------------------------- "It is official - this is a rebuilding year." - St. Bucky a.k.a., The Seer, re: The Wisconsin Badgers Basketball Team, 12/8/07
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SavannahBadger		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9273 August 11, 2011 10:30 AM I've got a new girl now	Remove this ad Badger inohiovalley wrote: Saint Bucky wrote: Badger inohiovalley wrote: Also....why is the Texas legislature our until 2013? Who takes that much time off? They only meet once every other year for 5 months or so. The whole limited Gov't thang. We need that in Washington! (Sorry for the political statement). I concur, as we used to have that. I started this thread, so no... I don't apologize for the political statement, but won't add any others to this. wiggle wiggle womp, wiggle wiggle wump, wiggle wiggle ooh wah whooo "The whole thing gives me a Schadenfreuderection... on a related note, my psychiatrist thinks I need to get out of East Lansing. Go figure." - TheHeb, 07/24/2012
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.		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1861 August 11, 2011 10:36 AM	I don't expect the non-lawyers here to understand this (b/c it is the most misunderstand thing about law, IMO), so let me be clear: *CONTRACTS CAN BE BROKEN AND ARE RENEGOTIATED ALL THE TIME.* The notion that the SEC "cannot renegotiate" is pure nonsense. If, hypothetically, they land Aggy and say 'we want 100M more, ESPN or we go to Fox' there will be a renegotiation. As for Aggy-UT......the lunatic sections of the fan bases hate each other and want to split.....the more sensible ones realize after that after Bucky-Goofy, this is the longest rivalry in CFB.....families are split b/t Orange and Maroon, and its a fairly exciting rivalry. Ending it over petty shit like this is going to be regretted by all, IMO. And I REALLY do not think UT (or Aggy) wants to open Texas to SEC recruiting. That is a very big game changer IMO and one they both will regret. Tubberville is already up to SEC dirty recruiting on the plains and people are already bitching. Imagine when Bama and Auburn can get a foothold in Texas..... "My biggest indictment of Bielema is that I don't see players developing or getting better. I wonder if he has a good staff of assistants or not" - BadgerInOhioValley, December 28, 2008. "Massively out coached. Massively." - BB Fran, December 3, 2011.
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DCBadger7		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10473 August 11, 2011 10:42 AM Blissfully Disinterested	Perusing the blogosphere and came across this item from an A&M blog: http://www.iamthe12thman.com/2011/8/10/2356379/latest-secede-rumors#storyjump Just received a phone call from a source that has been very reliable in the past. I was told that A&M will make an announcement that they will leave the Big 12 and join SEC some time before September 1st. So much for waiting until the spring. I assumed the timetable would be pushed up because with the mainstream media coverage something was going to have to happen sooner rather than later. This is the first time I have been given a date. Received an e-mail from a friend who has good sources inside the state capital. There will be no roadblocks from the state legislature to A&M joining the SEC. To be frank, the legislature will not be in session until after the election and they have more important things to worry about anyways. The governor is on board with A&M joining the SEC and even if he was not, he is too busy with preparing for a run at the presidency to worry about collegiate athletics. Evidently tu has tried to convince the other schools in the Big 12 to keep this thing together after A&M leaves. They promised to share revenue from the LHN while they find someone to replace A&M. Texas Tech told them in no uncertain terms that Tech would not be sticking around once A&M left. Tech was not too happy with tu and ESPN's attempt to strong arm them into letting the LHN televise the Tech-tu game. I expect Tech, OU, and OSU to join the PAC 12. Now you are all as up to date as I am. I expect Chip Brown to tweet all this information in about four weeks since that appears to be his M.O. I have no idea if this is a credible website or not, so keep that in mind. Very intriguing stuff, if true.
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DCBadger7		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10473 August 11, 2011 11:01 AM Blissfully Disinterested	Saint Bucky wrote: I don't expect the non-lawyers here to understand this (b/c it is the most misunderstand thing about law, IMO), so let me be clear: *CONTRACTS CAN BE BROKEN AND ARE RENEGOTIATED ALL THE TIME.* The notion that the SEC "cannot renegotiate" is pure nonsense. If, hypothetically, they land Aggy and say 'we want 100M more, ESPN or we go to Fox' there will be a renegotiation. Sure, if ESPN stands to benefit from a rengotiation with the SEC, of course they'd be willing to tear up the current deal. But what if what the SEC wants would completely screw ESPN's investment in the Big 12 and Longhorn network? Where's ESPN's incentive to play ball with the SEC? Or what if the two sides can't get together on a mutually acceptable deal? At some point, doesn't the exisiting contract carry the day if one side simply refuses to renegotiate?
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Tennesseebadger		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2561 August 11, 2011 11:13 AM	Saint Bucky wrote: As for Aggy-UT......the lunatic sections of the fan bases hate each other and want to split.....the more sensible ones realize after that after Bucky-Goofy, this is the longest rivalry in CFB.....families are split b/t Orange and Maroon, and its a fairly exciting rivalry. Ending it over petty shit like this is going to be regretted by all, IMO. And I REALLY do not think UT (or Aggy) wants to open Texas to SEC recruiting. That is a very big game changer IMO and one they both will regret. Tubberville is already up to SEC dirty recruiting on the plains and people are already bitching. Imagine when Bama and Auburn can get a foothold in Texas..... Texas A&M certainly wants to open up Texas to SEC recruiting-- their recruiting. A&M has a choice. Make a move or let the University of Texas stand on their neck forever with the Long Horn Network. When one team has it's own network and the other one doesn't, it isn't a rivalry anymore. Texas is not the twin cities where no one in Gooferville cares if the Badgers have won ten in a row. Mike Slive may very well be whispering to A&M that this is their chance to surpass Texas. Come join the best conference in the country and you'll be the one getting the best recruits in Texas in a very short period of time. Or, you can let the Lonhorns have their network and be the New Baylor. What's it going to be? By the way, A&M and Texas can still play every year, just like Florida and Florida State. It's just that the Aggies would like to win, something that isn;t going to happen if they stand pat.
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Tennesseebadger		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2561 August 11, 2011 11:23 AM	DCBadger7 wrote: But what if what the SEC wants would completely screw ESPN's investment in the Big 12 and Longhorn network? Where's ESPN's incentive to play ball with the SEC? Or what if the two sides can't get together on a mutually acceptable deal? At some point, doesn't the exisiting contract carry the day if one side simply refuses to renegotiate? DC, I think you are forgetting that the SEC also has lawyers who helped negotiate this contract. The SEC expanded just 20 years ago. I'd be amazed if their legal council didn't make some accomodation for possible future expansion, given the length of the contract. Furthermore, the SEC is ESPN's flagship college league. Would they want the SEC to sue for breech of contract so that Mike Slive can take the SEC to NBC's new sports network-- for yet more money? I just see Slive as holding more cards than ESPN.
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CCBadger		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5136 August 11, 2011 11:29 AM	Saint Bucky wrote: There is also ZERO chance UT wants to go "independent"........and this comes directly from both the AD and Prez. There are so many problems with going "independent" in this scenario that it boggles the mind. They want a conference. It seems that they're doing just about all they can to destroy the conference with their own greed. You can't blame the other teams for looking to jump ship when one school has so much power relative to the others. Everyone else needs to look out for themselves with a few teams. It's looking more and more like Nebraska and Colorado got out at the right time. It's also rather obvious how much football dominates over basketball right now - many of the conference decisions don't even seem to give basketball a second thought. "There's something beautiful, so pure about Wisconsin beating the snot out of teams by running the ball down their throats"- Matt Hayes, The Sporting News
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badgergirl01		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1737 August 11, 2011 11:34 AM	Tennesseebadger wrote: I just see Slive as holding more cards than ESPN. If Slive held more cards than ESPN, then the expansion would have been done soon after the Pac-12 announced their monster deal. If the SEC expands, they could renegotiate...I just don't think they could simply tear up the contract and jump to NBC/Fox/whoever. ESPN has some mighty smart lawyers, too. And they have about 300 million reasons why they want LHN to succeed. But this is where I don't get ESPN. Last year they worked hard to keep the Big 12 together. This year their actions are partly contributing to a possible Big 12 breakup. I read elsewhere that they offered Texas Tech $5 million to put their game against UT and a couple other Tech nonconference games on LHN. Tech turned them down and ESPN threatened them with not televising those games at all. Uh, way to make amends with the other schools after the whole high school games fiasco? I also don't see Texas going independent. Their non-football sports are way too important to them and make too much money for that.
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ricecloud9		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4589 August 11, 2011 11:48 AM	Details on the Longhorn Network contract, which is really what's pushing this potential shake up. I know that it's not launch time yet for the Longhorn Network, but as of today, no cable or dish provider has pick up the channel. I imagine that somebody in Texas will in time for the one game they will have on there (Sept 3rd blow out of Rice), but still a humorous slant to the story right now. Michael ricecloud9
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Tennesseebadger		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2561 August 11, 2011 11:56 AM	badgergirl01 wrote: If Slive held more cards than ESPN, then the expansion would have been done soon after the Pac-12 announced their monster deal. If the SEC expands, they could renegotiate...I just don't think they could simply tear up the contract and jump to NBC/Fox/whoever. ESPN has some mighty smart lawyers, too. And they have about 300 million reasons why they want LHN to succeed. Last year, the Texas legislature was in session and could get in the way. They aren't now. And of course ESPN could renegotiate. It is in their best interest to do so to freeze out their competitors. The SEC would prefer it too, but if ESPN got stupid,,, they would consider going elsewhere, just like we would. By the way, really good points on ESPN's apparantly insatiable appitite for buying up every college football broadcast property. It makes one wonder how long it will be before they buy a bust.
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Strange Brew eh		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5946 August 11, 2011 12:10 PM	Remove this ad If A&M goes and OU, OSU and maybe TTech go to the Pac12 (who would be 16?) does UT go with them to be in a conference or do they call the BigTen. Oooh, that could be fun. Add Missou or (Kansas?) and Texas. I don't think A&M goes as who would be #14 in the SEC (Va Tech,Clemson, Miami, Florida St). I assume Kansas/K-State and Ok and Okie State are package deals.
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TAMU to SEC???