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Posts: 10071
April 12, 2012 4:51 PM
The Wizard of Az "I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a 17 year old female. I love Maroon 5. Adam Lambert makes me sweat. Pete Wentz is the shizzle. Shit. Gave it away with "shizzle," didn't I?"
Blab of Bacon wrote:I yell a lot and get excited or depressed when I watch football. But I don't really understand the intricacies any more than the average casual fan. I am sure you were referring to the ass-dumb moronosity pasted below:7/11/08 Blab of Bacon wrote: This is the Packers fault. If Favre wants back you take him back. You grab him. How damn stupid. We prefer to move on without Favre? We have a very good defense, good receivers, a good RB, a good offensive line...and Thompson is going to roll the dice on Aaron Rodgers? This WILL be Ted Thompson's fault and it WILL be his legacy. He is an arrogant, wormy jerk. Welcome to permant "Public Enemy Number One" status, dick-bastard.Eventually I came around:6/17/2010 Blab of Bacon wrote: It must be pretty cool to be famous and get to hook up with other famous people like Aaron Rodgers. I mean like Erin Andrews.
Blab of Bacon wrote: This is the Packers fault. If Favre wants back you take him back. You grab him. How damn stupid. We prefer to move on without Favre? We have a very good defense, good receivers, a good RB, a good offensive line...and Thompson is going to roll the dice on Aaron Rodgers? This WILL be Ted Thompson's fault and it WILL be his legacy. He is an arrogant, wormy jerk. Welcome to permant "Public Enemy Number One" status, dick-bastard.
Blab of Bacon wrote: It must be pretty cool to be famous and get to hook up with other famous people like Aaron Rodgers. I mean like Erin Andrews.
Interact
Posts: 23762
April 12, 2012 6:12 PM
The special prosecutor in the case, Angela Corey, has refused to explain exactly how she arrived at the charge. But in the affidavit, prosecutors said Zimmerman spotted Martin while patrolling his gated community, got out of his vehicle and followed the young man. Prosecutors interviewed a friend of Martin's who was talking to him over the phone moments before the shooting. His parents' lawyer has said that Martin was talking to his girlfriend back in Miami."During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening," the affidavit said. "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why." During a recorded call to a police dispatcher, Zimmerman "made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated 'these a------s, they always get away' and also said 'these f-----g punks,' said the affidavit, available at .http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu It continued: "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home." "Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued," prosecutors said in their account.link
The special prosecutor in the case, Angela Corey, has refused to explain exactly how she arrived at the charge. But in the affidavit, prosecutors said Zimmerman spotted Martin while patrolling his gated community, got out of his vehicle and followed the young man.
Prosecutors interviewed a friend of Martin's who was talking to him over the phone moments before the shooting. His parents' lawyer has said that Martin was talking to his girlfriend back in Miami."During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening," the affidavit said. "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why."
During a recorded call to a police dispatcher, Zimmerman "made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated 'these a------s, they always get away' and also said 'these f-----g punks,' said the affidavit, available at .http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu
It continued: "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."
"Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued," prosecutors said in their account.
legal experts warned there is a real chance it could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of Florida's "stand your ground" law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight. At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman's lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence - a relatively low legal standard - that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again. There's a "high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case," Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law "puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn't self-defense."
At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman's lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence - a relatively low legal standard - that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again.
There's a "high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case," Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law "puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn't self-defense."
Posts: 3646
April 12, 2012 6:38 PM
Azree33 wrote: Blab of Bacon wrote: I yell a lot and get excited or depressed when I watch football. But I don't really understand the intricacies any more than the average casual fan. I am sure you were referring to the ass-dumb moronosity pasted below:7/11/08 Blab of Bacon wrote: This is the Packers fault. If Favre wants back you take him back. You grab him. How damn stupid. We prefer to move on without Favre? We have a very good defense, good receivers, a good RB, a good offensive line...and Thompson is going to roll the dice on Aaron Rodgers? This WILL be Ted Thompson's fault and it WILL be his legacy. He is an arrogant, wormy jerk. Welcome to permant "Public Enemy Number One" status, dick-bastard.Eventually I came around:6/17/2010 Blab of Bacon wrote: It must be pretty cool to be famous and get to hook up with other famous people like Aaron Rodgers. I mean like Erin Andrews. So wait. Your views evolve and change over time? You change your mind and see how situations develop? You think about issues and prioritize them? What you said two years ago isn't necessarily exactly the same as how you feel today?Interesting.
Blab of Bacon wrote: I yell a lot and get excited or depressed when I watch football. But I don't really understand the intricacies any more than the average casual fan. I am sure you were referring to the ass-dumb moronosity pasted below:7/11/08 Blab of Bacon wrote: This is the Packers fault. If Favre wants back you take him back. You grab him. How damn stupid. We prefer to move on without Favre? We have a very good defense, good receivers, a good RB, a good offensive line...and Thompson is going to roll the dice on Aaron Rodgers? This WILL be Ted Thompson's fault and it WILL be his legacy. He is an arrogant, wormy jerk. Welcome to permant "Public Enemy Number One" status, dick-bastard.Eventually I came around:6/17/2010 Blab of Bacon wrote: It must be pretty cool to be famous and get to hook up with other famous people like Aaron Rodgers. I mean like Erin Andrews.
Posts: 10837
April 12, 2012 6:43 PM
Ol Badger wrote:"The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why."
Posts: 8306
April 12, 2012 8:43 PM
pussycraptacular
Ol Badger wrote:If true, this account would seem to vitiate Zimmerman's claims of self defense. Yet: legal experts warned there is a real chance it could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of Florida's "stand your ground" law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight. At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman's lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence - a relatively low legal standard - that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again. There's a "high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case," Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law "puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn't self-defense." This is the main point I've been trying to make.
People are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.
April 12, 2012 8:45 PM
bhambadger wrote: This is my main sticking point. If the prosecutor can make the case that since Zimmerman pursued against word of the 911 operator, doesn't that automatically nullify the stand your ground claim? He was in a car, got out and followed Martin, thus making the first move in the incident. If anyone would have had a stand your ground case, it's Martin.
Posts: 17383
April 12, 2012 8:47 PM
Ol Badger wrote: Getting back on topic:The AP has a story up on the prosecutor's affadavit of probable cause in the Zimmerman case. Here's the link to the affadavit itself. The story outlines the prosecutor's case: The special prosecutor in the case, Angela Corey, has refused to explain exactly how she arrived at the charge. But in the affidavit, prosecutors said Zimmerman spotted Martin while patrolling his gated community, got out of his vehicle and followed the young man. Prosecutors interviewed a friend of Martin's who was talking to him over the phone moments before the shooting. His parents' lawyer has said that Martin was talking to his girlfriend back in Miami."During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening," the affidavit said. "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why." During a recorded call to a police dispatcher, Zimmerman "made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated 'these a------s, they always get away' and also said 'these f-----g punks,' said the affidavit, available at .http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu It continued: "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home." "Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued," prosecutors said in their account.linkIf true, this account would seem to vitiate Zimmerman's claims of self defense. Yet: legal experts warned there is a real chance it could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of Florida's "stand your ground" law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight. At a pretrial hearing, Zimmerman's lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence - a relatively low legal standard - that he acted in self-defense in order to get a judge to toss out the second-murder charges. And if that fails and the case does go to trial, the defense can raise the argument all over again. There's a "high likelihood it could be dismissed by the judge even before the jury gets to hear the case," Florida defense attorney Richard Hornsby said. Karin Moore, an assistant professor of law at Florida A&M University, said the law "puts a tremendous burden on the state to prove that it wasn't self-defense." This is the main point I've been trying to make.
April 12, 2012 8:54 PM
yanked wrote: Your point was always the logical one. There was never a hint of institutional racism.....all you have is a law that liberals don't like. Fight that on its merits. Making it about institutional racism was silly from the get-go, fighting the law itself makes sense. Its a losing battle but at least it makes sense.
April 12, 2012 8:56 PM
Ol Badger wrote:bhambadger wrote: This is my main sticking point. If the prosecutor can make the case that since Zimmerman pursued against word of the 911 operator, doesn't that automatically nullify the stand your ground claim? He was in a car, got out and followed Martin, thus making the first move in the incident. If anyone would have had a stand your ground case, it's Martin. But as Levi suggests, Martin, by not having a gun, put himself at a disadvantage. If only he'd fired first, then he could use this defense, see?
April 12, 2012 9:00 PM
Ol Badger wrote: yanked wrote: Your point was always the logical one. There was never a hint of institutional racism.....all you have is a law that liberals don't like. Fight that on its merits. Making it about institutional racism was silly from the get-go, fighting the law itself makes sense. Its a losing battle but at least it makes sense. Certainly I agree with the first sentence. But the second is wrong. There were a lot of "hints" in the way the police and local prosecutors handled the case (or rather didn't), which is why the Governor called in a special prosecutor. Now, it may turn out that those "hints" are no more than that, but to say that they're not there at all is simply an overreach.
April 12, 2012 9:03 PM
yanked wrote: They called in a special prosecutor and the feds because of political pressure....not because anyone thought there was wrongdoing by the Police or DA. These charges have everything to do with the media and politcal/race pressures, not some grand finding of institutional racism. Your own link and logic say 2nd degree murder will never stick.
April 12, 2012 9:09 PM
Ol Badger wrote: yanked wrote: They called in a special prosecutor and the feds because of political pressure....not because anyone thought there was wrongdoing by the Police or DA. These charges have everything to do with the media and politcal/race pressures, not some grand finding of institutional racism. Your own link and logic say 2nd degree murder will never stick. Did you actually read my post?Quit being an idiot.
Posts: 13563
April 12, 2012 9:49 PM
mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Yes, let's parse the words of a grieving mom. I'm pretty cOnfident that she is stable and not riding an emotional rolls coaster.Do you seriously believe that second statement was hers? You're many things, but naive ain't one.
ThisCharmingFan wrote:Yes, let's parse the words of a grieving mom. I'm pretty cOnfident that she is stable and not riding an emotional rolls coaster.
Posts: 8673
April 12, 2012 10:08 PM
Posts: 5129
April 12, 2012 10:17 PM
LeviBooth wrote:Ol Badger wrote:"The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why."And thus, the NRA takeaway from the whole affair - if Martin had just shot Zimmerman in the face when he felt threatened, all would be well. For him.
Posts: 7697
April 12, 2012 10:50 PM
C.O.F.
ThisCharmingFan wrote:mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Yes, let's parse the words of a grieving mom. I'm pretty cOnfident that she is stable and not riding an emotional rolls coaster.Do you seriously believe that second statement was hers? You're many things, but naive ain't one. Yet you didn't say that. My general point stands, let's judge a grieving mom.
April 12, 2012 10:52 PM
mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Yes, let's parse the words of a grieving mom. I'm pretty cOnfident that she is stable and not riding an emotional rolls coaster.Do you seriously believe that second statement was hers? You're many things, but naive ain't one. Yet you didn't say that. My general point stands, let's judge a grieving mom.Could you edit that sentence once more? I'm not following. Didn't say what?
April 12, 2012 11:08 PM
Ol Badger wrote:yanked wrote: Your point was always the logical one. There was never a hint of institutional racism.....all you have is a law that liberals don't like. Fight that on its merits. Making it about institutional racism was silly from the get-go, fighting the law itself makes sense. Its a losing battle but at least it makes sense. Certainly I agree with the first sentence. But the second is wrong. There were a lot of "hints" in the way the police and local prosecutors handled the case (or rather didn't), which is why the Governor called in a special prosecutor. Now, it may turn out that those "hints" are no more than that, but to say that they're not there at all is simply an overreach.
April 13, 2012 4:21 AM
mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:mcguda wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Yes, let's parse the words of a grieving mom. I'm pretty cOnfident that she is stable and not riding an emotional rolls coaster.Do you seriously believe that second statement was hers? You're many things, but naive ain't one. Yet you didn't say that. My general point stands, let's judge a grieving mom.Could you edit that sentence once more? I'm not following. I got the "grieving mom" part the first time, but I didn't say what?
April 13, 2012 10:15 AM
ryebadger wrote: "Hints"?And it isn't simply a matter of "bad law". You quibble with the law itself when there is an unjust result but the process and application of the law were beyond repute.
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