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Posts: 5129
April 24, 2012 12:23 AM
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Posts: 10842
April 24, 2012 1:13 AM
ryebadger wrote:"God bless the DA for doing the right thing, knowing they could come back later and prosecute if evidence came around." _____________________________________ Yes, Sanford, Florida gave the world a virtual seminar on effective law enforcement. After what has to be the shortest murder investigation in state history produced nothing but the recommendation of the lead investigator to arrest Zimmerman, they instead concluded they didn't have enough to convict him, slammed the case shut and ruled that he acted in self-defense. Contrary to your inane attempt to ascribe pragmatism to their approach, the Sanford PD or DA had no intention of investigating further, nor did they hold open the possibility of a later prosecution based on additional evidence. They came to an ending point, and not because the investigation ran out of leads and got cold faster than Trayvon Martin's body. Instead they claimed they had enough to know what happened: Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman without provocation and George Zimmerman lawfully killed him in self defense. That's kind of what got the Martin family upset to begin with. The "justice they seek" (and you claim is now being deprived by progressive idiocy) had already been denied by the DA you praise so highly. Once the DA determined it was self-defense and closed the investigation, how do you submit this other evidence would have "come around" and gotten the DA to prosecute? More significantly, isn't the DA supposed to proactively investigate cases, and refrain from making these determinations, until they've tracked all that evidence down in the first place? Shouldn't they investigate until they could reasonably rule out those scenarios you say they could prosecute "later if evidence comes up"? In what universe is it the "right thing" to end the investigation in less than a day in favor of sitting back and waiting for evidence to come in? You seem to be suggesting one of two things. At best, the DA was less than zealous in its investigation of Trayvon Martin's death by concluding its investigation before it compiled all the evidence. Or at worst, the DA came to an almost instantaneous determination that exonerated Zimmerman while still holding open the possibility that evidence could exist to implicate him. Sure the DA looked at evidence. Should we make a list of the evidence we now know they didn't look at? All the relevant details that didn't come out until well after the DA decided it had seen enough in two hours to close its investigation? The witnesses we know for a fact they didn't speak to? The 911 calls we know for a fact they didn't have analyzed? The forensic evidence we know for a fact was not examined? Nevermind the evidence we don't know about, which comprises the bulk of it. This applies regardless of which side of the case it falls on. And yet you claim it was the "right thing" to come to a conclusion without the benefit of all that, based on what little they had, and leave open the option of acting when additional evidence just happened to roll in? Right. I mean, everyone knows the primary suspect's account given in the hours after the alleged crime is the most reliable snapshot of what really happened. The suspect's veracity only increases with the severity of the crime, especially when the suspect was the only one armed and the other actor ends up dead. Evidence gathering should be limited, if not avoided altogether. Salient facts or evidence (some) will (probably) find their way to the investigator (eventually). In the interim, it is highly unlikely that a suspect will flee, a witness will become hard to locate, memories will become less reliable over time or physical evidence will be destroyed, corrupted or lost. You certainly wouldn't want to try to identify or chase down leads in the hope they produce evidence or additional leads. Criminal investigations are most effective when they are shorter than two hours, eschew evidence gathering, ignore the recommendation of the person leading it, fail to provide a complete or reliable account of what happened, but result in a determination of what happened anyway. Or so says Yanked. God bless the DA for not doing its job! Congrats on your willingness to suspend common sense and argue it had to be the right call simply because it pissed off "progressives" and black people.
Posts: 17389
April 24, 2012 4:12 PM
ryebadger wrote: "God bless the DA for doing the right thing, knowing they could come back later and prosecute if evidence came around."_____________________________________Yes, Sanford, Florida gave the world a virtual seminar on effective law enforcement. After what has to be the shortest murder investigation in state history produced nothing but the recommendation of the lead investigator to arrest Zimmerman, they instead concluded they didn't have enough to convict him, slammed the case shut and ruled that he acted in self-defense. Contrary to your inane attempt to ascribe pragmatism to their approach, the Sanford PD or DA had no intention of investigating further, nor did they hold open the possibility of a later prosecution based on additional evidence. They came to an ending point, and not because the investigation ran out of leads and got cold faster than Trayvon Martin's body. Instead they claimed they had enough to know what happened: Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman without provocation and George Zimmerman lawfully killed him in self defense. That's kind of what got the Martin family upset to begin with. The "justice they seek" (and you claim is now being deprived by progressive idiocy) had already been denied by the DA you praise so highly. Once the DA determined it was self-defense and closed the investigation, how do you submit this other evidence would have "come around" and gotten the DA to prosecute? More significantly, isn't the DA supposed to proactively investigate cases, and refrain from making these determinations, until they've tracked all that evidence down in the first place? Shouldn't they investigate until they could reasonably rule out those scenarios you say they could prosecute "later if evidence comes up"? In what universe is it the "right thing" to end the investigation in less than a day in favor of sitting back and waiting for evidence to come in? You seem to be suggesting one of two things. At best, the DA was less than zealous in its investigation of Trayvon Martin's death by concluding its investigation before it compiled all the evidence. Or at worst, the DA came to an almost instantaneous determination that exonerated Zimmerman while still holding open the possibility that evidence could exist to implicate him. Sure the DA looked at evidence. Should we make a list of the evidence we now know they didn't look at? All the relevant details that didn't come out until well after the DA decided it had seen enough in two hours to close its investigation? The witnesses we know for a fact they didn't speak to? The 911 calls we know for a fact they didn't have analyzed? The forensic evidence we know for a fact was not examined? Nevermind the evidence we don't know about, which comprises the bulk of it. This applies regardless of which side of the case it falls on. And yet you claim it was the "right thing" to come to a conclusion without the benefit of all that, based on what little they had, and leave open the option of acting when additional evidence just happened to roll in? Right.I mean, everyone knows the primary suspect's account given in the hours after the alleged crime is the most reliable snapshot of what really happened. The suspect's veracity only increases with the severity of the crime, especially when the suspect was the only one armed and the other actor ends up dead. Evidence gathering should be limited, if not avoided altogether. Salient facts or evidence (some) will (probably) find their way to the investigator (eventually). In the interim, it is highly unlikely that a suspect will flee, a witness will become hard to locate, memories will become less reliable over time or physical evidence will be destroyed, corrupted or lost. You certainly wouldn't want to try to identify or chase down leads in the hope they produce evidence or additional leads. Criminal investigations are most effective when they are shorter than two hours, eschew evidence gathering, ignore the recommendation of the person leading it, fail to provide a complete or reliable account of what happened, but result in a determination of what happened anyway. Or so says Yanked.God bless the DA for not doing its job! Congrats on your willingness to suspend common sense and argue it had to be the right call simply because it pissed off "progressives" and black people.
Posts: 212
April 24, 2012 8:59 PM
yanked wrote:Just yesterday you said "no one knows for sure what happened".Today you seem to know more than the DA. You need to get comfortable with this, the DA looked at the evidence provided them by the investigator, it wasn't enough to bring charges. Zimmy was released. Everything else you say is just hysteria, you have no evidence to back up any claim that the DA didn't do their job. Zimmerman will walk. Zimmerman is innocent. The DA didn't have the evidence to convict. You can write 100 stories longer than the one you just managed and it won't change the facts. You are wrong, with conviction. I like a plucky spirit like that.
April 24, 2012 9:13 PM
GopherRock wrote: yanked wrote: Just yesterday you said "no one knows for sure what happened".Today you seem to know more than the DA. You need to get comfortable with this, the DA looked at the evidence provided them by the investigator, it wasn't enough to bring charges. Zimmy was released. Everything else you say is just hysteria, you have no evidence to back up any claim that the DA didn't do their job. Zimmerman will walk. Zimmerman is innocent. The DA didn't have the evidence to convict. You can write 100 stories longer than the one you just managed and it won't change the facts. You are wrong, with conviction. I like a plucky spirit like that. That would imply that he was brought in to begin with. Much of the hysteria currently swirling is from the fact that he was not brought down to the station/jail/precinct house for questioning.
yanked wrote: Just yesterday you said "no one knows for sure what happened".Today you seem to know more than the DA. You need to get comfortable with this, the DA looked at the evidence provided them by the investigator, it wasn't enough to bring charges. Zimmy was released. Everything else you say is just hysteria, you have no evidence to back up any claim that the DA didn't do their job. Zimmerman will walk. Zimmerman is innocent. The DA didn't have the evidence to convict. You can write 100 stories longer than the one you just managed and it won't change the facts. You are wrong, with conviction. I like a plucky spirit like that.
Posts: 1461
April 24, 2012 9:47 PM
GopherRock wrote:yanked wrote:Just yesterday you said "no one knows for sure what happened".Today you seem to know more than the DA. You need to get comfortable with this, the DA looked at the evidence provided them by the investigator, it wasn't enough to bring charges. Zimmy was released. Everything else you say is just hysteria, you have no evidence to back up any claim that the DA didn't do their job. Zimmerman will walk. Zimmerman is innocent. The DA didn't have the evidence to convict. You can write 100 stories longer than the one you just managed and it won't change the facts. You are wrong, with conviction. I like a plucky spirit like that. That would imply that he was brought in to begin with. Much of the hysteria currently swirling is from the fact that he was not brought down to the station/jail/precinct house for questioning.
Posts: 2234
April 24, 2012 10:18 PM
Is this thing on?
yanked wrote:I'm almost certain the DA looked at all of the evidence
I'm almost certain the DA looked at all of the evidence
April 26, 2012 1:28 PM
April 26, 2012 2:15 PM
Posts: 13567
April 26, 2012 4:41 PM
Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1
April 26, 2012 5:01 PM
ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.
April 26, 2012 5:15 PM
Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too....Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Posts: 2410
April 26, 2012 5:29 PM
Posts: 15718
April 26, 2012 5:34 PM
LeviBooth wrote:Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too....Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin." Except you did it wrong, you dope. I wish Zimmerman luck if his Lawyerbob defense is 'I prejudged him then killed him because he was Black. It isn't an issue, because a Black neighbor prejudged too'.
April 26, 2012 5:35 PM
Bucky4077 wrote:Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too....Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin." So, what you're saying is that a black kid, minding his own business in certain neighborhoods, has to assume he's understandably a target for suspicion of doing something illegal, should he be stopped by a citizen? And, if a black kid fails to assume he's understandably a suspicious person, and in his ignorance feels threatened by said citizen, he has no right to defend himself when feeling threatened. And, if he does defend himself as he has no reason to think himself a suspicious character, should accept a death penalty for his ignorance?
5. Be aware of your surroundings. Especially when it’s dark. Or bright. Some people are on the lookout for muggers or rapists. You need to be on the lookout for profilers who are judging you. Don’t give them an opportunity to make a mistake.
6. If you feel you are being profiled and followed or, worse, chased by someone with a vigilante streak — if you are hunted in the way it seems Trayvon was, by someone bigger than you who may be armed and hopped up on stereotypes about you — then you need to act. By calling the police. That is the exact time to snitch. I know there are times the cops will be your enemies, but sometimes calling 911 and letting the threatening person know that you’re doing so could save your life.
April 26, 2012 5:44 PM
LeviBooth wrote: Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters:http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too.... Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin." Except you did it wrong, you dope. I wish Zimmerman luck if his Lawyerbob defense is 'I prejudged him then killed him because he was Black. It isn't an issue, because a Black neighbor prejudged too'.
Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters:http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too.... Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters:http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.
Bobadger wrote: Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters:http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1
April 26, 2012 6:04 PM
April 26, 2012 6:13 PM
ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too....Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin." No you can't. One is a rule, the other isn't.If he doesn't carry the gun, nobody dies. It really is that simple. If he listens to the rules...both the neighborhood watch and THE POLICE..nobody dies.
April 26, 2012 6:34 PM
Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:ThisCharmingFan wrote:Bobadger wrote:Also, a very interesting profile by Reuters: http://www.sun-sentinel.c...5,0,7084492.story?page=1 The homeowners association asked him to launch a Neighborhood Watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol — a violation of Neighborhood Watch guidelines but not a crime.I can do that too....Though civil-rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Trayvon, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account."Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin." No you can't. One is a rule, the other isn't.If he doesn't carry the gun, nobody dies. It really is that simple. If he listens to the rules...both the neighborhood watch and THE POLICE..nobody dies. Martin doesn't bash Zimmerman's head into the ground....nobody dies....If people don't break into houses in the neighborhood, no neighborhood watch is formed....nobody dies...If Emmanuel Burgess doesn't get away from the cops, Zimmerman doesn't feel compelled to follow the next suspicious subject...nobody diesHow far out can this type of reasoning take us??Are you guys still on the "Trayvon had every right to beat the shit out of Zimmerman for following him" train? Irregardless of the fact that that is in no way accurate, and doesn't take away Zimmerman's right to defend himself whilst someone is smashing his head into the ground?
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