FWIW - Zimmerman medical report in Bickering and Arkansas Discussion Forum

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FWIW - Zimmerman medical report

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ryebadger		#61	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5129 May 18, 2012 11:30 AM	Remove this ad badgerjon66 wrote: Grammar pissing contests aside, it appears that a witness account may have had a lot to do with police/DA reluctance to charge Zimmerman initially. Go here: http://www.thesmokinggun....zimmerman-witness-758903 and click on "the witness account" for a verbatim report. This, plus Zimmerman's injuries, look like pretty good evidence of self-defense. I wonder if the prosecutor might end up wishing they had taken all this to a grand jury. It probably helps to know a little about the law before you make these conclusions. You're probably totally unaware of the several logical leaps you've made here, and your analysis would get an F in a high school law class. If you haven't picked up on why that is after all the discussion here, you never will. More significantly, congrats on your first post ever that didn't include whining about the media or leftist hypocrites. As always, this post is written with the express proviso that I am not a chicken little. The sky is not falling. My office window does not have a ledge. I'm happy we won. I heard some ranked teams even lost. I'm glad we are not Virginia Tech. I like our coach. I know these are 19 year old kids. The season is young. Mistakes will get cleaned up. Fowler said even Alabama threw an interception once. The other guys are on scholarship, too. After living through the Don morton era, I'm just glad to be here.
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Buddj4		#62	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6794 May 18, 2012 11:33 AM "I too, have never experienced a "meat raffle". I'm thinking about bringing the concept to Texas."	ThisCharmingFan wrote: sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Get over it. People use "kid" all the time. I hear people in their 20s talking about other people they know as "kids." It is another gen's "dude." I think what bugs me with the description of Martin as a kid is it is being used in conjunction of the photo of him as a 13 year old. He obviously was not at a physical disadvantage in a fight with Zimmerman. You keep track of the days that you DO drink? Monsignor If you're drinking because your life is awesome, then you're doing the right thing. TheHeb
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Myles Long		#63	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15728 May 18, 2012 11:35 AM	Buddj4 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Get over it. People use "kid" all the time. I hear people in their 20s talking about other people they know as "kids." It is another gen's "dude." I think what bugs me with the description of Martin as a kid is it is being used in conjunction of the photo of him as a 13 year old. He obviously was not at a physical disadvantage in a fight with Zimmerman. All of which leads to the question why was Zimmerman so intent on following him after being told not to and most likely starting the altercation. Perhaps, it was because he knew he had the trump card holstered to his body.......... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.' President Muffley --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Badger Sports Photos Older Tailgate/Bowl Trip Photos
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usajb		#64	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1378 May 18, 2012 11:37 AM "Southfew should turn over the moderating of the board to johnnysouthcarolinafootball."	Myles Long wrote: All of which leads to the question why was Zimmerman so intent on following him after being told not to and most likely starting the altercation. Perhaps, it was because he knew he had the trump card holstered to his body.......... Myles nails it!
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ThisCharmingFan		#65	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13581 May 18, 2012 11:42 AM The disputatious one	Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: What is medicatioin? I think those who openly care about others spelling and grammar should be held to a higher standard. There is a significant difference between posts from my computer vs. the iphone. I'll tell you, whenever I'm typing on my iphone it makes it really, really hard to differentiate between who's and whose! But, then I get to a computer and I remember which word is grammatically correct. Amazing. When i'm typing on my iphone it is a pain to correct the autocorrect. The pain in the ass factor is compounded by the posting time. Is that hard to understand? This is a perfect example of your asinine assumptions that you think are reality. It has nothing to do with differentiation, it has to do with time spent and effort. Don't make excuses for yourself. If you are going to be a little bitch about grammar, at least be perfect yourself. I don't care that you don't know the difference between who's and whose, because I still could understand what you meant. But, it is funny that the grammar Nazi doesn't properly practice elementary grammar himself. Grammar nazi? Care to point out my long history of correcting grammar? How many times does Rye have to point out the obvious to you? The fact that you are arguing with lawyers who understand the law far better than you and the procedures is just amazing. You really just want to appear to be a moron. You bitched at me about grammar. Which hardly makes me a grammar nazi. Strawman 1 dispatched. I'll take your lack of addressing my point about differentiation as tacit admission of just how stupid you are. So, your auto correct didn't catch medicatioin, but it changed whose to who's....right. Blame it on the auto correct. What part about not caring and effort don't you get? That is the point. Look at the time i posted. Figure it out. JFC, you are fucking slow. My point is not that other scenarios are not "possible." My point is that they are not "probable" considering the evidence at hand. When someone says "it is kind of hard not to jump to conclusions" when talking about the conclusion that goes against the physical evidence, I am going to call them out for that. Based on what? Your definition of probable? Evidence at hand? Which you know? Is it probable that Martin would be alive if Zim HAD DONE WHAT THE POLICE ASKED? usajb: The problem with that is there is no evidence at all to suggest that Martin thought he was "being attacked." Followed suspiciously, sure. "Being attacked," no. Shades of gray, but some of those shades are much more black and white than others. All well and good except for the fact that it wasn't bitching about grammar, you claimed that grammar counts on an internet message board. So should we assume that in only counts when it works in your favor? I would take this seriously if only i didn't know that you don't take it seriously. As soon as you are willing to admit that grammar and spelling don't mean a fucking thing on an internet message board, I'll stop pointing out your stupidity. Until then, I guess we'll just have to assume you are just a dumb ass because you don't have a handle of the English language. Maybe you should have went to Point and got educated. So you do care.
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ThisCharmingFan		#66	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13581 May 18, 2012 11:45 AM The disputatious one	Buddj4 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Get over it. People use "kid" all the time. I hear people in their 20s talking about other people they know as "kids." It is another gen's "dude." I think what bugs me with the description of Martin as a kid is it is being used in conjunction of the photo of him as a 13 year old. He obviously was not at a physical disadvantage in a fight with Zimmerman. I shall henceforth refer to him as, "that scary black kid."
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Myles Long		#67	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15728 May 18, 2012 11:45 AM	ThisCharmingFan wrote: Buddj4 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Get over it. People use "kid" all the time. I hear people in their 20s talking about other people they know as "kids." It is another gen's "dude." I think what bugs me with the description of Martin as a kid is it is being used in conjunction of the photo of him as a 13 year old. He obviously was not at a physical disadvantage in a fight with Zimmerman. I shall henceforth refer to him as, "that scary black kid, whose death was totally avoidable." FIFY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.' President Muffley --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Badger Sports Photos Older Tailgate/Bowl Trip Photos
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Pointerpride102.muskieville		#68	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8676 May 18, 2012 11:52 AM Stalker of ThisCharmingFan	ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Bobadger wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: What is medicatioin? I think those who openly care about others spelling and grammar should be held to a higher standard. There is a significant difference between posts from my computer vs. the iphone. I'll tell you, whenever I'm typing on my iphone it makes it really, really hard to differentiate between who's and whose! But, then I get to a computer and I remember which word is grammatically correct. Amazing. When i'm typing on my iphone it is a pain to correct the autocorrect. The pain in the ass factor is compounded by the posting time. Is that hard to understand? This is a perfect example of your asinine assumptions that you think are reality. It has nothing to do with differentiation, it has to do with time spent and effort. Don't make excuses for yourself. If you are going to be a little bitch about grammar, at least be perfect yourself. I don't care that you don't know the difference between who's and whose, because I still could understand what you meant. But, it is funny that the grammar Nazi doesn't properly practice elementary grammar himself. Grammar nazi? Care to point out my long history of correcting grammar? How many times does Rye have to point out the obvious to you? The fact that you are arguing with lawyers who understand the law far better than you and the procedures is just amazing. You really just want to appear to be a moron. You bitched at me about grammar. Which hardly makes me a grammar nazi. Strawman 1 dispatched. I'll take your lack of addressing my point about differentiation as tacit admission of just how stupid you are. So, your auto correct didn't catch medicatioin, but it changed whose to who's....right. Blame it on the auto correct. What part about not caring and effort don't you get? That is the point. Look at the time i posted. Figure it out. JFC, you are fucking slow. My point is not that other scenarios are not "possible." My point is that they are not "probable" considering the evidence at hand. When someone says "it is kind of hard not to jump to conclusions" when talking about the conclusion that goes against the physical evidence, I am going to call them out for that. Based on what? Your definition of probable? Evidence at hand? Which you know? Is it probable that Martin would be alive if Zim HAD DONE WHAT THE POLICE ASKED? usajb: The problem with that is there is no evidence at all to suggest that Martin thought he was "being attacked." Followed suspiciously, sure. "Being attacked," no. Shades of gray, but some of those shades are much more black and white than others. All well and good except for the fact that it wasn't bitching about grammar, you claimed that grammar counts on an internet message board. So should we assume that in only counts when it works in your favor? I would take this seriously if only i didn't know that you don't take it seriously. As soon as you are willing to admit that grammar and spelling don't mean a fucking thing on an internet message board, I'll stop pointing out your stupidity. Until then, I guess we'll just have to assume you are just a dumb ass because you don't have a handle of the English language. Maybe you should have went to Point and got educated. So you do care. Only about yours, since you claimed spelling and grammar "count" on the Internet. People who make such claims should be held to a higher standard.
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ThisCharmingFan		#69	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13581 May 18, 2012 12:26 PM The disputatious one	No i didn't. I never used the word internet. LIAR!!!!
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breadtree		#70	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1804 May 18, 2012 12:44 PM	Remove this ad usajb wrote: Myles Long wrote: All of which leads to the question why was Zimmerman so intent on following him after being told not to and most likely starting the altercation. Perhaps, it was because he knew he had the trump card holstered to his body.......... Myles nails it! Exactly. Based solely on the arguments being made by the "Zimmerman is the fall guy for the evil liberal media" camp in this thread, premeditated murder is completely legal as long as you start a fight with someone and proceed to lose that fight. According to their logic, I could tuck a gun in my waistband, walk up to any guy on the street, punch him, and then allow him to start winning the fight and beating my ass. Then I shoot him. Boom, it's all his fault. Now, perhaps we'll soon find out that Martin dragged Zimmerman out of his car and started wailing on him unprovoked. That seems unlikely given Martin's phone call to his GF and Zimmerman's phone call with 911. But regardless we don't know that now and so I'm just basing my argument on what people are arguing in this thread. And that argument seems to be that as long as a guy is kicking your ass it is totally cool to shoot him and how you came to be getting your ass kicked isn't relevant. EDIT: BTW, if you think that Martin having THC in his system is somehow relevant to this discussion, you've clearly never had THC in your system.
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Pointerpride102.muskieville		#71	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8676 May 18, 2012 12:47 PM Stalker of ThisCharmingFan	ThisCharmingFan wrote: No i didn't. I never used the word internet. LIAR!!!! Too bad I didn't use a direct quote. The discussion was on Internet message boards. I'm beginning to think you never graduated UW. The English classes probably tripped you up.
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ryebadger		#72	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5129 May 18, 2012 1:04 PM	sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Of everything that's gone on here you save your outrage for descriptions of Treyvon Martin as a "kid" ? A high school student who can't vote, can't serve, can't drink and is legally considered a minor in all 50 states, and you see some incongruity in calling him a "kid"? Are you seriously arguing that you equate majority with the ability to kick a grown adult's ass (a notion so silly it's almost hard to take seriously)? In your world are we to determine who is a kid and who is a "young man" on a case by case basis, according to their relative size and strength vis a vis the average grown adult? That's logical. It also ignores that at least as relevant as Martin's physical maturity was his emotional maturity, especially when compared to the other actor here. I'll bet you heard in law school that concepts like reasonableness and state of mind come into play when we analyze legal duties, and they do not depend upon how much Trayvon Martin can bench press. And, as long as you insist on focusing solely on how these two stacked up against one another in a fight, surely it's relevant that one of them had a gun and the other did not. That's a trivial detail that can make an 8 year old more powerful than an MMA champion. In the meantime, I'll be sure to assess the height, weight, build and general toughness of the students at the pre-prom party we are attending so I know if I am speaking to a "kid" or a "young man." While whe are at it, can you also give your indignation a rest? Most people here, outside of yanked and bobadger, admit to not knowing what went on that night, who attacked whom and how, so I remain unlcear who you are wagging your finger at. The outrage is directed at a system that assumed Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman was acting in self defense without any semblance of an investigation, and without considering key evidence that did not even surface until after Zimmerman was set free mere hours after the shooting. That is the case regardless of whether it's ultimatelty determined that Zimmerman was acting in self defense or without justification. Both outcomes remain equally probable after 3 months of evidence, which means nobody could have conclusively settled on one outcome after 3 hours. That's why people are angry, what brought out the beloved Al Sharpton, and why this is described as an injustice. It's been pointed out to you before, yet you insist on chastising people for jumping to conclusions. If that's your beef, take it up with the Sanford DA. As always, this post is written with the express proviso that I am not a chicken little. The sky is not falling. My office window does not have a ledge. I'm happy we won. I heard some ranked teams even lost. I'm glad we are not Virginia Tech. I like our coach. I know these are 19 year old kids. The season is young. Mistakes will get cleaned up. Fowler said even Alabama threw an interception once. The other guys are on scholarship, too. After living through the Don morton era, I'm just glad to be here.
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ThisCharmingFan		#73	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13581 May 18, 2012 1:12 PM The disputatious one	Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: No i didn't. I never used the word internet. LIAR!!!! Too bad I didn't use a direct quote. The discussion was on Internet message boards. I'm beginning to think you never graduated UW. The English classes probably tripped you up. Well, that sort of thinking is why you wound up at Point.
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ryebadger		#74	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5129 May 18, 2012 1:40 PM	Until then, I guess we'll just have to assume you are just a dumb ass because you don't have a handle of the English language. Maybe you should have went to Point and got educated. ----------------------------------------- Strange, but I never suspected you were plagiarizing Shakespeare there. Apparently, Point is not as renowned for its English Department as it is (allegedly) for Environmental Sciences. Or, more likely, you managed to avoid that side of campus altogether. Meanwhile I can't get a handle of the arguments in this thread. Instead of participating I should have went to bed and got rested. As always, this post is written with the express proviso that I am not a chicken little. The sky is not falling. My office window does not have a ledge. I'm happy we won. I heard some ranked teams even lost. I'm glad we are not Virginia Tech. I like our coach. I know these are 19 year old kids. The season is young. Mistakes will get cleaned up. Fowler said even Alabama threw an interception once. The other guys are on scholarship, too. After living through the Don morton era, I'm just glad to be here.
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ThisCharmingFan		#75	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13581 May 18, 2012 1:47 PM The disputatious one	Rye, Just stick to the lawyering. It is appreciated. I'll deal with Pointer's raging hard-on. He may have to see the doc if it doesn't go down after 4 hours.
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Bud Foster		#76	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6273 May 18, 2012 2:16 PM The Geek From 16 Candles Whose Name I Don't Remember	Is there any chance a "TCF Board" could be added so all of his ridiculous arguments can stop polluting the stuff some of us want to read!
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SaundersBucky		#77	[url]	[-]
Posts: 16959 May 18, 2012 2:20 PM Buckyville's Fiscal Cliff	Bud Foster wrote: Is there any chance a "TCF Board" could be added so all of his ridiculous arguments can stop polluting the stuff some of us want to read! You want to read Zimmerman threads on the Politics Board? Really? Gee - you think you know somebody...
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sackman86		#78	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3383 May 18, 2012 2:45 PM	ryebadger wrote: sackman86 wrote: Rx95 wrote: sackman86 wrote: Can we stop saying "kid" here. This was a 17 year old young man. Again, there is not enough here for me to be close to convicting or acquitting but both the images of a much younger Trayvon and calling him a "kid" are a little far fetched. I suspect this "kid" and many other 17 year old young men could kick many grown adults asses. We use the word "kid" when referring to college football players all the time. I didn't see you object to that. Yes, because we're not discussing an alleged homicide in that context. Puh-lease. Of everything that's gone on here you save your outrage for descriptions of Treyvon Martin as a "kid" ? A high school student who can't vote, can't serve, can't drink and is legally considered a minor in all 50 states, and you see some incongruity in calling him a "kid"? Are you seriously arguing that you equate majority with the ability to kick a grown adult's ass (a notion so silly it's almost hard to take seriously)? In your world are we to determine who is a kid and who is a "young man" on a case by case basis, according to their relative size and strength vis a vis the average grown adult? That's logical. It also ignores that at least as relevant as Martin's physical maturity was his emotional maturity, especially when compared to the other actor here. I'll bet you heard in law school that concepts like reasonableness and state of mind come into play when we analyze legal duties, and they do not depend upon how much Trayvon Martin can bench press. And, as long as you insist on focusing solely on how these two stacked up against one another in a fight, surely it's relevant that one of them had a gun and the other did not. That's a trivial detail that can make an 8 year old more powerful than an MMA champion. In the meantime, I'll be sure to assess the height, weight, build and general toughness of the students at the pre-prom party we are attending so I know if I am speaking to a "kid" or a "young man." While whe are at it, can you also give your indignation a rest? Most people here, outside of yanked and bobadger, admit to not knowing what went on that night, who attacked whom and how, so I remain unlcear who you are wagging your finger at. The outrage is directed at a system that assumed Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman was acting in self defense without any semblance of an investigation, and without considering key evidence that did not even surface until after Zimmerman was set free mere hours after the shooting. That is the case regardless of whether it's ultimatelty determined that Zimmerman was acting in self defense or without justification. Both outcomes remain equally probable after 3 months of evidence, which means nobody could have conclusively settled on one outcome after 3 hours. That's why people are angry, what brought out the beloved Al Sharpton, and why this is described as an injustice. It's been pointed out to you before, yet you insist on chastising people for jumping to conclusions. If that's your beef, take it up with the Sanford DA. What got me involved in this was the fact people viewed this as such an open and shut case against Zimmerman when I felt the precise facts of how the physical altercation began and led to the gunshot in question were in real doubt. I largely have been playing devil's advocate and, in fact, since the beginning said that my own gut was that this would end up as a manslaughter case. I read today that that was initially what was recommended by the Sanford Police but the DA disagreed. Politically, as you may know, I am with Al Sharpton a large percentage of the time. I was and continue to be bothered by the portrayal of this as an a young "kid", reflected in misleading pictures several years old being constantly shown by the media as if this was some big tough guy picking on a little kid. If you are an attorney and discussing reasonableness and state of mind, then yes, there is a distinction between a 17 year old girl who is 5'0 tall and 110 pounds and Trayvon. You cite Trayvon's state of mind because of his youth but that is not particularly relevant here as Trayvon is not on trial. I agree with the majority that Zimmerman was likely profiling and, as Myles said, undoubtedly felt protected with a weapon. Sounds like an overly aggressive douche who was out to play policeman. Nonetheless, he called police several times before about suspicious people and no one was ever shot. This time there was obviously a physical altercation that somehow ensued and the question is who initiated the physical altercation and how did it result in Martin being shot. For the final time, this is a manslaughter case at best, not a murder two. If the prosecutor can get a plea to a manslaughter she should take it. Drugs in Trayvon's system and injuries to Zimmerman (with no similar injuries to Trayvon) really don't help the prosecution. If I am Zimmerman's lawyers, I only plea to a negligent manslaughter charge or I take my chances at trial.
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Pointerpride102.muskieville		#79	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8676 May 18, 2012 2:53 PM Stalker of ThisCharmingFan	ThisCharmingFan wrote: Rye, Just stick to the lawyering. It is appreciated. I'll deal with Pointer's raging hard-on. He may have to see the doc if it doesn't go down after 4 hours. Why do you obsess about my penis?
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Pointerpride102.muskieville		#80	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8676 May 18, 2012 2:58 PM Stalker of ThisCharmingFan	Remove this ad ThisCharmingFan wrote: Pointerpride102 wrote: ThisCharmingFan wrote: No i didn't. I never used the word internet. LIAR!!!! Too bad I didn't use a direct quote. The discussion was on Internet message boards. I'm beginning to think you never graduated UW. The English classes probably tripped you up. Well, that sort of thinking is why you wound up at Point. Why would I want to go to UW and receive a substandard education for my desired field?
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